Switch is not switching

[dogdayz]

My Dreamlink T4 seems to have stopped switching birds. I have an EMP 8x1 diseqc with five legacy LNB's.

It seems the switch might be toast but before I climb a 20' icy ladder and freeze my fingers I thought that I would ask you guys if there could be a receiver issue or something besides a bad switch?

[The Noof]

My Dreamlink T4 seems to have stopped switching birds. I have an EMP 8x1 diseqc with five legacy LNB's.

It seems the switch might be toast but before I climb a 20' icy ladder and freeze my fingers I thought that I would ask you guys if there could be a receiver issue or something besides a bad switch?

Sounds like your EMP might also be iced:they can fill with moisture & misbehave

[dogdayz]

I guess I have to get out there and bring it into the house to dry out and see if it works again. We did have some rain and then freezing temperature so maybe that is the problem. If it works again then I'll seal it in a plastic bag.

(At my age I don't work well either when I get cold and iced up) ;)

[Mavrick]

I guess I have to get out there and bring it into the house to dry out and see if it works again. We did have some rain and then freezing temperature so maybe that is the problem. If it works again then I'll seal it in a plastic bag.

(At my age I don't work well either when I get cold and iced up) ;)

Bypass the switch with a barrel connector and test all of your sats, if they perform good with a direct connection to the receiver then it's clearly the switch that is the issue.

[dogdayz]

Bypass the switch with a barrel connector and test all of your sats, if they perform good with a direct connection to the receiver then it's clearly the switch that is the issue.

Thanks, but definitely something with the switch since I'm stuck on 91, none of the other sats can be seen. Also, I have a T5 on another switch that uses the same LNB's and it switches ok.

[dishuser]

cut the bottom off an empty pop bottle and put switches in it

[auggie]

Those emp switches are Hog's, had all sorts of problems using them with the DL-T4
soon as I changed out to a chieta HD switch no more problems. for me anyways

[dogdayz]

Those emp switches are Hog's, had all sorts of problems using them with the DL-T4
soon as I changed out to a chieta HD switch no more problems. for me anyways

Good to know but it has been working for over a year until now. Probably is a moisture / ice problem. Just hope I can get up there to check it before Christmas.

[nevernamed]

probably done. I've found all diseqc (even the 'good' ones) to be flakey and finicky. I've gone through a few in the 7 years i've been using them. always make sure the power is off on the receiver when playing with the connections. i usually buy a couple at a time now since they 're getting harder to find

[dogdayz]

probably done. I've found all diseqc (even the 'good' ones) to be flakey and finicky. I've gone through a few in the 7 years i've been using them. always make sure the power is off on the receiver when playing with the connections. i usually buy a couple at a time now since they 're getting harder to find

I agree, I have used a lot and found them to be flakey. Even the EMP and Chieta switches don't seem to be much better than the cheap ones.
Too cold outside now for me to go and try another switch - maybe tomorrow. I hate those F59 connectors too, I wish they would use something easier to connect and disconnect, especially when the fingers are freezing.

[jets]

When I run 5 sats I use Chieta and a 22Khz port 1-3 diseqc and port 4 diseqc for one bird and diseq /22KHz for the 5th sat. Works well.

[dogdayz]

When I run 5 sats I use Chieta and a 22Khz port 1-3 diseqc and port 4 diseqc for one bird and diseq /22KHz for the 5th sat. Works well.

I was going to give that a try but first I went out and removed the EMP and connected a Chieta for just three sats but it still does not switch. I am always stuck on 91. Seems to me the receiver is not talking to the switch???

[Mavrick]

Thanks, but definitely something with the switch since I'm stuck on 91, none of the other sats can be seen. Also, I have a T5 on another switch that uses the same LNB's and it switches ok.


I was going to give that a try but first I went out and removed the EMP and connected a Chieta for just three sats but it still does not switch. I am always stuck on 91. Seems to me the receiver is not talking to the switch???

A cracked cable with some moisture in it will also give you this kind of issue, that is why you should "Bypass the switch with a barrel connector and test your sats" this test will rule out and test both your LNBs and cable. Another possible cause could be your receiver has dropped some voltage and is not putting out enough power to operate your system anymore , to test this you can swap your receivers around and see if the problem follows one receiver...........

[surfinisfun]

A cracked cable with some moisture in it will also give you this kind of issue, that is why you should "Bypass the switch with a barrel connector and test your sats" this test will rule out and test both your LNBs and cable. Another possible cause could be your receiver has dropped some voltage and is not putting out enough power to operate your system anymore , to test this you can swap your receivers around and see if the problem follows one receiver...........

Good advise Mav, if it was me i'd check the second suggestion first seeings how he has a T5 available to swap.

Might be a power supply issue, if so that would keep him indoors fixing it rather than playing outside in the cold.

[dogdayz]

Yes, it works on each LNB when I bypass the switch.

I was wondering if it might be a power issue. This receiver is getting old, I got it several years ago when the T4 hit the market.

If I swap it out with my T5 it will probably work. It's a pain in the butt to move the T5.

When I get a free moment I'll see what I can try...

[surfinisfun]

Yes, it works on each LNB when I bypass the switch.

I was wondering if it might be a power issue. This receiver is getting old, I got it several years ago when the T4 hit the market.

If I swap it out with my T5 it will probably work. It's a pain in the butt to move the T5.

When I get a free moment I'll see what I can try...

If the T4's power supply is compatible with the TS you could just try using the T5's rather than the receiver itself.

Either way, once checked it will eliminate one possible problem.

[dogdayz]

If the T4's power supply is compatible with the TS you could just try using the T5's rather than the receiver itself.

Either way, once checked it will eliminate one possible problem.

This is weird, I just unplugged the T4 wall wart to see what voltage it is and then plugged it back in and now the receiver is switching sats. We'll see if it keeps working.

This thing hasn't switched for days and now all of a sudden it works again. Arrrrgh!

[The Noof]

This is weird, I just unplugged the T4 wall wart to see what voltage it is and then plugged it back in and now the receiver is switching sats. We'll see if it keeps working.

This thing hasn't switched for days and now all of a sudden it works again. Arrrrgh!

May ALL your problems be sooooo small...

[Mavrick]

This is weird, I just unplugged the T4 wall wart to see what voltage it is and then plugged it back in and now the receiver is switching sats. We'll see if it keeps working.

This thing hasn't switched for days and now all of a sudden it works again. Arrrrgh!

Sounds like maybe your power supply (or a capacitor) inside the receiver is getting ready to die, It may work now but I think you will see it stop working again over time.

[auggie]

I would bet to guess it is the power adapter (wall plug power cord to receiver) this a common problem with the DL's
someone on this site has done some extensive work on this problem and even posted about it and the resolution to it
I had to change mine out on my T4 because i was getting the signal error issue & other weird things happening, which led to
not having the right voltage going to receiver etc. which may cause switching issues (voltage to switch)

[dogdayz]

OK, I'll dig into my junk box and see if I have a high power 12 v adapter to give it a try. I can also open up the receiver to see if there are any swollen caps.

[auggie]

is the other receiver that is working a DL, if so I would suggest you try that power adapter on the non-working one
before you go and plug in a high powered 12 v adapter, which may blow something (swollen caps) etc.

[dogdayz]

is the other receiver that is working a DL, if so I would suggest you try that power adapter on the non-working one
before you go and plug in a high powered 12 v adapter, which may blow something (swollen caps) etc.

I hate to use the adapter from the other receiver, the way I have all my wires tied and routed through the cabinet makes it a pain in the butt to take it out and put it back again. The T4 adapter is rated at 2.5 amp and I found one in my junk box rated at 2.8 amp so it will be a good substitute. I have it plugged in now and so far it's working.
As soon as it warms up outside I'll reconnect the EMP 8x1 and see if it switches properly again.

[auggie]

These FTA receivers especially the newer ones don't seem to have the power required to run all the stuff
needed for Sat. operation (dishes,Lnb's, DP,DPP, Muti-swithes, etc.) they were designed for legacy equipment 13v-18v switching
not for all the power hungry stuff that is used "NOW"

[Terryl]

It's not the AC to DC power adapter that runs the LNB's and switches directly, but the internal DC switching power for the LNB connection on the receiver, you can use a 5 amp external power supply to run the receiver, but the receiver will still only supply 500 mA (most if not all FTA receivers) to the LNB's and other stuff connected to the receivers LNB input connector.

If running the Dish D1000 power hog LNB and some sort of switch you will be over taxing the DC output from the receiver.

Also some multi switches (but not all) will power all atttached LNB's at the same time, this can lead to an over current problem if the switch is not an externally powered one, this can affect the reception on some if not all satellites.

[Terryl]

is the other receiver that is working a DL, if so I would suggest you try that power adapter on the non-working one
before you go and plug in a high powered 12 v adapter, which may blow something (swollen caps) etc.

The receiver will only take as much DC current from the external DC power supply as needed to run the receiver and attached equipment.

If the old AC to DC power adapter was rated at 12 VDC 2 amps you can use one rated at 12 VDC 5 amps or more and it will not hurt anything, as long as you don't go over the 12 volt DC rating (plus or minus a half a volt) you will be safe, I have a ton of stuff running on a 12 VDC 50 amp supply without problems, they all connect to a DC distribution buss with the proper fusing for each attached device, this saves on tons of AC to DC adapters lying around in the radio cabinet.

This is what I use for the power to all my DC stuff.


https://powerwerx.com/west-mountain-radio-rigrunner-4005

[auggie]

Sorry I'm not an expert like yourself, was trying to use the KISS method in regards to dogdayz problem he was having
and suggested he try the other power supply that was working. All my sat stuff is legacy equipment (LNB,Switches,etc.)
a lot less headaches on setup, for me anyways.

[dogdayz]

It's not the AC to DC power adapter that runs the LNB's and switches directly, but the internal DC switching power for the LNB connection on the receiver, you can use a 5 amp external power supply to run the receiver, but the receiver will still only supply 500 mA (most if not all FTA receivers) to the LNB's and other stuff connected to the receivers LNB input connector.

If running the Dish D1000 power hog LNB and some sort of switch you will be over taxing the DC output from the receiver.

Also some multi switches (but not all) will power all atttached LNB's at the same time, this can lead to an over current problem if the switch is not an externally powered one, this can affect the reception on some if not all satellites.

Can I safely put a power inserter inline with a diseqc? If so would it help with running the five LNB's and the 8x1?

[Mavrick]

Can I safely put a power inserter inline with a diseqc? If so would it help with running the five LNB's and the 8x1?

The power inserter has to be on it's own cable or it could damage your receiver. So it would not work with your particular set-up, if you switched to let say a 1000.2 lnb or DP4x4 switch then you could put the power inserter on one of the open ports.

[dogdayz]

Well, I replaced the original T4 power adapter with another one, put my EMP switch back in with all five LNB's connected and so far everything looks good. The receiver is switching perfectly again.
So I don't know if the adapter was the issue or not. It was putting out 12.2 volts but maybe was not supplying enough current.

[Terryl]

What is the model number of the EMP switch??

[The Noof]

The receiver will only take as much DC current from the external DC power supply as needed to run the receiver and attached equipment.

If the old AC to DC power adapter was rated at 12 VDC 2 amps you can use one rated at 12 VDC 5 amps or more and it will not hurt anything, as long as you don't go over the 12 volt DC rating (plus or minus a half a volt) you will be safe, I have a ton of stuff running on a 12 VDC 50 amp supply without problems, they all connect to a DC distribution buss with the proper fusing for each attached device, this saves on tons of AC to DC adapters lying around in the radio cabinet.

This is what I use for the power to all my DC stuff.


https://powerwerx.com/west-mountain-radio-rigrunner-4005
True dat....you could use a 12volt 750 amp car battery.The circuit being used determines the current...not the power supply

[dogdayz]

What is the model number of the EMP switch??

Centauri S8/1PCN-3

Specs say 50 mA consumption and 400 mA current pass.

[Terryl]

If you look at the DC voltage spec's it says +18 volts DC from the receiver, if your receiver is still using the +13 and + 18 volt switching, (+14 = V, +18 = H, legacy type) the switch could have a DC power problem when the receiver is trying to look at a transponder that is in the +14 volt range.

I would E-mail them and ask what is the lowest DC voltage it will run on, and also does it supply DC power to all attached LNB's at the same time or only when it's switched to that LNB input, and is the 400 mA a maximum through the switch or out from each LNB input port??.

If all are on at the same time then it's a DC current problem from the receiver.

If it will not run too good below the +18 volt power requirement then you need to find out if your receiver is trying to switch via the +14 and + 18 volt legacy option

[dogdayz]

If you look at the DC voltage spec's it says +18 volts DC from the receiver, if your receiver is still using the +13 and + 18 volt switching, (+14 = V, +18 = H, legacy type) the switch could have a DC power problem when the receiver is trying to look at a transponder that is in the +14 volt range.

I would E-mail them and ask what is the lowest DC voltage it will run on, and also does it supply DC power to all attached LNB's at the same time or only when it's switched to that LNB input, and is the 400 mA a maximum through the switch or out from each LNB input port??.

If all are on at the same time then it's a DC current problem from the receiver.

If it will not run too good below the +18 volt power requirement then you need to find out if your receiver is trying to switch via the +14 and + 18 volt legacy option

My understanding is that anything under 15 volts causes the LNB to switch to vertical polarity and over 15 volts will switch to horizontal. I put a multimeter on my receiver and read 13.1 volts on a vertical and 17.8 on a horizontal so that is well within specs. This is also sufficient to power the diseqc, it's operating range is 10 - 20 vdc. I believe the diseqc commands are modulated onto the dc as a series of 22 kHz pulses to switch LNB's.

What I don't know is whether or not all LNB's are powered up at all times or only the one on the selected switch port. If all are powered then definitely the rcvr power supply is over taxed. I'm not sure what an LNB draws but likely 75 -100 mA each plus the 50 mA for the switch. Would be nice to make a breakout cable and put an ammeter inline.

All I know is my receiver was switching fine for years and suddenly it stopped, all I did was replace the AC/DC adapter and now it is working so far... All I can think of is that the old adapter was failing and could not supply the needed current. Who knows?

[Terryl]

You can't measure the DC amperage on an active high frequency RF circuit without some very special equipment to keep the system up and running. (true voltage and current measurement on an active system)

Even putting a DVM in the circuit would cause a false reading, I used a specially modified OEM receiver to do measurements like this.

The DC voltage and DC current measurements were done at the LNB power supply circuit inside the receiver, this way it didn't affect the signals.

As to the power dongle, it could have been putting out some higher then normal AC ripple, (bad internal electrolytic caps), this would fubar most DC systems.

[Mavrick]

My understanding is that anything under 15 volts causes the LNB to switch to vertical polarity and over 15 volts will switch to horizontal. I put a multimeter on my receiver and read 13.1 volts on a vertical and 17.8 on a horizontal so that is well within specs. This is also sufficient to power the diseqc, it's operating range is 10 - 20 vdc. I believe the diseqc commands are modulated onto the dc as a series of 22 kHz pulses to switch LNB's.

What I don't know is whether or not all LNB's are powered up at all times or only the one on the selected switch port. If all are powered then definitely the rcvr power supply is over taxed. I'm not sure what an LNB draws but likely 75 -100 mA each plus the 50 mA for the switch. Would be nice to make a breakout cable and put an ammeter inline.

All I know is my receiver was switching fine for years and suddenly it stopped, all I did was replace the AC/DC adapter and now it is working so far... All I can think of is that the old adapter was failing and could not supply the needed current. Who knows?

Some receivers have the ability to turn off an LNB when not in use, I know the old CNX receivers had that ability which was a great feature but you will have to check the settings on yours........

[Terryl]

If you still have the old power dongle you could test it with a power resistor and a DVM set to measure AC voltage, a 12 ohm 20 watt resistor would draw 1 amp from the dongle, this would give it enough DC current draw to measure the AC ripple on it, anything over a quarter to a half a volt AC and it could have been the problem, too much junk in the DC buss.

[dogdayz]

If you still have the old power dongle you could test it with a power resistor and a DVM set to measure AC voltage, a 12 ohm 20 watt resistor would draw 1 amp from the dongle, this would give it enough DC current draw to measure the AC ripple on it, anything over a quarter to a half a volt AC and it could have been the problem, too much junk in the DC buss.

I gave it a try this morning, looks like I'm getting about 0.64 vac ripple so you may be right. :thumbsup:

[Terryl]

Yup....That's a bit too much for a DC circuit, too much AC on the DC buss can filter through and affect the Diseqc commands, (and other things) as they are transmitted on a low level 22 kHz RF carrier, if too much AC ripple is in the mix the carrier wave out to the LNB/switch can be affected.

The use of an external DC power supply negates the internal filtering (electrolytic caps) used by an internal AC to DC power supply, the receiver relies on the external supply to do all the DC filtering, where as the receiver with an internal power supply has it's own DC filtering cap's.

The best way to keep this from happening again would be to get a higher quality, higher amperage power dongle, the higher amperage supply will have less strain then one rated to just be able to run the receiver at it's normal DC current spec's.

When I designed circuits I used the 2 to 1 ratio for the power requirement, if the circuit needed 1 amp DC to run on a normal load, then I used a 2 amp DC supply to power it.

Take a look at the receivers power requirements, and also the LNB(s) and switches current requirements, add then together then do the 2 to 1 for the replacement power dongle.

[dogdayz]

Still working good with my replacement adapter.
I'm using an old Dell PC power brick. It's 12v at 3 amps. Probably much better filtering than the original dreamlink supply.

[auggie]

The adapter that comes with the DL'S fails, it is the #1 problem with them,
Lionking posted about it, he did extensive work on the issue including finding a solution for it

[dishuser]

The adapter that comes with the DL'S fails, it is the #1 problem with them,
Lionking posted about it, he did extensive work on the issue including finding a solution for it
he got his worn out watching too much porn :thumbsup:

[Terryl]

Still working good with my replacement adapter.
I'm using an old Dell PC power brick. It's 12v at 3 amps. Probably much better filtering than the original dreamlink supply.

If it's working then don't mess with anything else.

[dogdayz]

If it's working then don't mess with anything else.

Words of wisdom! :yes:

[dogdayz]

Before throwing out the original T4 AC adapter I decided to open it up and take a look. With a little persuasion in a vise I carefully cracked open the glue joints around the cover. Inside I can see that C9 has a swollen top so this is likely leaking causing a high ripple. C9 is a 1000uf 16v electrolytic.

If I was energetic I would change that cap and see if it works properly again but since my receiver is ok with the replacement power supply I am gonna throw out the old one. :yes:

Just thought that I would mention this in case someone else has an issue with the adapter. It's not too hard to open and the components are easily accessible for desoldering.

[Terryl]

Yup...Cheap caps, the death of low priced electronic stuff, bet it's not correctly rated or not rated high enough for the circuit it's in.

[dogdayz]

Yup...Cheap caps, the death of low priced electronic stuff, bet it's not correctly rated or not rated high enough for the circuit it's in.

Several years ago I had a Samsung 52" LED tv that died. I opened it up and found several caps in the power supply were all swollen. I replaced them and it cured the problem. (I have a Sharp Aquos now, much better tv).

[Terryl]

When I was in the circuit designing part of my life, I always rated the electrolytic caps to 25 to 50% of the design voltage and temperature spec for that equipment.

However marketing would come back and say that the proffet margins were too low, production would use cheaper parts, I would complain but the money talks.

[The Noof]

Several years ago I had a Samsung 52" LED tv that died. I opened it up and found several caps in the power supply were all swollen. I replaced them and it cured the problem. (I have a Sharp Aquos now, much better tv).

I had exactly the same problem with exactly the same t.v:6 dollar fix.It has been working for over 3 years since the repair

[The Noof]

Sorry about the thread jack though.