zoogor and satlobo

[ricky1lung]

im in the same boat here lol my last transaction with zoogor i had to bring to paypal and get them to try and get my loot back ...ill let you know if i get it back ...

my thoughts are that he may have been busted or something cause i had emails back and forth and then like the next day nothing and now its been over a week and still nothing ...so my guess is as good as yours lol

[ramrod]

Same boat here. Loboiks informed me that Zoogor isn't reselling any more. I've been on this service from day one. My sub ran out April 29. I paid for a new code as usual. Waited and waited...no connection. Loboiks ask for my username which i gave him immediately (the one i was currently using). He said he didnt find it in the system and i needed to buy a new code. I reminded him i just bought my renewal and had all the past usernames and pw on record if needed. Now i get no return message from him. Looks as if i stand to loose my money...go figure.

[The Noof]

Same boat here. Loboiks informed me that Zoogor isn't reselling any more. I've been on this service from day one. My sub ran out April 29. I paid for a new code as usual. Waited and waited...no connection. Loboiks ask for my username which i gave him immediately (the one i was currently using). He said he didnt find it in the system and i needed to buy a new code. I reminded him i just bought my renewal and had all the past usernames and pw on record if needed. Now i get no return message from him. Looks as if i stand to loose my money...go figure.

That isn't the fist time Booger hung people out to dry...learn your lessons folks.

[wheresmystuff]

That isn't the fist time Booger hung people out to dry...learn your lessons folks.

I'm surprised he came back to resell again...

[Kingdom]

I think I was the first victim of Zooger. Even one moderator didn't believe me that time.

http://www.satfix.to/showthread.php?171178-iks-services&p=1170722#post1170722

[Anubis]

I think I was the first victim of Zooger. Even one moderator didn't believe me that time.

http://www.satfix.to/showthread.php?171178-iks-services&p=1170722#post1170722
I did not say anything to the fact that I did not believe you. I clearly stated at that present time I did not see a bunch of posts claiming the same as you therefore had no valid proof that the said reseller was "ripping" people off therefore felt you were venting frustration. I also clearly stated I was not choosing sides in the matter and expressed the reality that the reseller was in no control of said server. Please do not state something that is untrue. You can perceive what you want from my past post however not once did I come out and say that I did not believe you. I did however clearly state that unless you have proof that he was "ripping" people off to not make such a claim.

[ramrod]

Zoogor never actually ripped me off as he was always helpful when i needed him. The issue is that i payed for my renewal not knowing he was no longer in the picture. It is easy to see if you have or have not payed, easy to turn you back on, and easy to send your money back.

[The Noof]

Is there confirmation to this? I renewed (or at least tried) this weekend, and nothing. Didn't get my usual confirmation reply.

It seems as he got popped.

[ramrod]

Is there confirmation to this? I renewed (or at least tried) this weekend, and nothing. Didn't get my usual confirmation reply.

Yes!!! there's confirmation. Paypal records.
I was told by a vip that he is no longer reselling.

[ricky1lung]

well i just won my claim against zoogor and got my loot back had to wait 11 days with zoogor not gettin back to paypal meens i win lol now i just gotta wiat 3-5 more days for the loot to be in my acct. but what ever i get it back ...anyone else that got ripped and used paypal should put in a claim to get your loot back i know paypal isnt the best for what we do but in times like these i like it lol

[The Noof]

well i just won my claim against zoogor and got my loot back had to wait 11 days with zoogor not gettin back to paypal meens i win lol now i just gotta wiat 3-5 more days for the loot to be in my acct. but what ever i get it back ...anyone else that got ripped and used paypal should put in a claim to get your loot back i know paypal isnt the best for what we do but in times like these i like it lol
Let's see how you feel when you get the letter...lol

[weezer]

zoogor has been busted people already getting letters put in the rumor section if you want just a heads up

[ricky1lung]

Let's see how you feel when you get the letter...lol

dont care live in canada where they dont do anything for stealing us crap lol

[Anubis]

dont care live in canada where they dont do anything for stealing us crap lol
You may be in for a rude awakening and dose of reality.

[mjcapps]

SO does this mean the end of Satlobo server?
or will he keep up with the server.

[The Noof]

SO does this mean the end of Satlobo server?
or will he keep up with the server.

ECM today...but who knows the remaining life of any iks?

[hondoharry]

C/P from another site for those looking for Zoogor

Gonna get email and letter from Nagrastar if you bought from ZOOGOR
Holy crap! Im scared. Did you see this on the other forum: Zoogor posted:

"Hey Buds. I am out of business. I got busted. I never deleted an email or a paypal transaction because i knew this day would come. (CYA)

Nagrastar has it all! I have been given no choice but to cooperate with Nagrastar. If you call 844-728-7226 you can settle your case before they contact you and save some $.

I was the biggest volume reseller ever. When they took me down I was still supporting 6,000 subs per month from various IKS and IPTV providers."

Word on the street is Nagrstar has already targetting his customers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

It fits a common narrative but I highly doubt this came from Zoogor himself. If he did get busted he would never be able to write anything on the net, let alone this crap. And of course end users could not be targeted so quickly.

[dishuser]

dont care live in canada where they dont do anything for stealing us crap lol

you're an idiot
ever hear of marty mullen?
$24 million and 7 years

[nob0dy]

dont care live in canada where they dont do anything for stealing us crap lol

yeah go tell that to VG ;x

[The Noof]

you're an idiot
ever hear of marty mullen?
$24 million and 7 years

I think the gene that generates intelligence ran down his moms' leg bro.

[nob0dy]

I think the gene that generates intelligence ran down his moms' leg bro.

are you kidding me , he is safe , just ask VGiddy & Boss ;x

pay-pay & ebay won't give up your info .......:tehe:

[The Noof]

are you kidding me , he is safe , just ask VGiddy & Boss ;x

pay-pay & ebay won't give up your info .......:tehe:

rotflmao...

[jedi]

I don't think NagraStar has gone after end users in Canada unless they were buying credits in bulk - then they would consider you a reseller and fair game for them.
If they consider you a reseller and send you a letter you better pay attention to it and defend it or they could end up with a default judgment against you.
If they commence proceedings against you it will be through the Superior Court of Justice (Commercial List) - it is not a simple proceeding and will cost you a lot of time and money to defend the proceeding.

[wheresmystuff]

you're an idiot
ever hear of marty mullen?
$24 million and 7 years

he was a dealer not an end user...

[fn59]

you're an idiot
ever hear of marty mullen?
$24 million and 7 years

Wasn't he lured to the U.S., where he was arrested?

[twenty5]

Satscams has never had any Canadian end user of IKS on it. I'm not aware of Bell going after end IKS users, so these people are probably safe for now.

[jedi]

Satscams has never had any Canadian end user of IKS on it. I'm not aware of Bell going after end IKS users, so these people are probably safe for now.

It is not the Bell guys that are doing the investigations now - it seems like NagraStar has now taken over and have been pretty aggressive with their investigations. They are busy thumping the bushes - looking for any leads they can find.

You are right they have never gone after any end users in Canada so far - but who knows what they future will hold.
Bottom line is you should assume that they are coming for you and plan for it - don't make it easy for them to trace anything back to you - now is not the time to assume that you are safe just because you are an end user.
What if they make a mistake and assume you are a reseller and commence proceedings against you? That's going to cost you big time trying to defend it even if you never were a reseller.

[ricky1lung]

there was wufman list ...nothing happened
there was ruthies list ...nothing happened
and now zoogor ...i expect nothing as well

[The Noof]

"Natural selection" dictates that the weak & deficient will be consumed.Only a matter of time.Pretty sure that Bell has a hit list already, & rightfully so.

[nob0dy]

Satscams has never had any Canadian end user of IKS on it. I'm not aware of Bell going after end IKS users, so these people are probably safe for now.

VGiddy was from Canada ......... this is old news ~> http://www.satfix.to/showthread.php?130664-Another-Mod-Reseller-Bust

[dishuser]

Satscams has never had any Canadian end user of IKS on it. I'm not aware of Bell going after end IKS users, so these people are probably safe for now.

forever?
people used to get popped for having an avr 10 years ago
and they weren't dealers

[jazzman]

Have a friend here in the US that received a letter from Nagra instead of Hagen, Nole and Boyle and they demanded $7,500 instead of the $3.500 DN was demanding not to go to court. I think Nagra could do the same thing North of the border but as we all know Canadian law is different and they can't get as much out of you as they can in the US. Still not sure about that as Nagra is an international company. Only time will tell. I paid my dues here in the US but it still SUCKED lol. Best thing is to get out of iks NOW before it's too late and with zoogor ratting it may already be...

[jedi]

I'm not trying to be a scare monger here - but - if NagraStar does try to go after end users - why make it easy for them?
In my opinion if you assume the worst is going to happen - and it doesn't - then you are a way ahead of the game. You don't want to be that cocky guy that said it will never happen to me and all of a sudden some stranger is banging on your door with a statement of claim saying you owe me $10,000 or more.
All I am saying is prepare for the worst - it may never happen - but if it does at least you will have a chance to say "What are you talking about Willis?"

[mindbender]

Have a friend here in the US that received a letter from Nagra instead of Hagen, Nole and Boyle and they demanded $7,500 instead of the $3.500 DN was demanding not to go to court. I think Nagra could do the same thing North of the border but as we all know Canadian law is different and they can't get as much out of you as they can in the US. Still not sure about that as Nagra is an international company. Only time will tell. I paid my dues here in the US but it still SUCKED lol. Best thing is to get out of iks NOW before it's too late and with zoogor ratting it may already be...

It's to late.

[tubbs]

Your talking that you can get "HIT" real bad with IKS, well what about getting Direct TV on IPTV ? can't they hang you for that too?

[nob0dy]

Your talking that you can get "HIT" real bad with IKS, well what about getting Direct TV on IPTV ? can't they hang you for that too?

yes of course , i know two people that doing Dave , & they're both crazy ........ ok well maybe 1 is , she's insane ....... the other's are just seeding low profile small group of people , not advertised anywhere ..........

google fta Moderator1 ....... see for yourself ;x

[zikky6]

yes of course , i know two people that doing Dave , & they're both crazy ........ ok well maybe 1 is , she's insane ....... the other's are just seeding low profile small group of people , not advertised anywhere ..........

google fta Moderator1 ....... see for yourself ;x

Moderator1 that site stop selling dave i think because no one goes to that site in months ....

[nob0dy]

Moderator1 that site stop selling dave i think because no one goes to that site in months ....

she has three sites . & yes its been a long time , i logged in to see if she's still selling or not ........

[jedi]

yes of course , i know two people that doing Dave , & they're both crazy ........ ok well maybe 1 is , she's insane ....... the other's are just seeding low profile small group of people , not advertised anywhere ..........

google fta Moderator1 ....... see for yourself ;x

I think there is quite a few people using Dave for IPTV channels - I don't think it matters which one of the Providers you are going to steal from I think they all are going to try and nab you :-)

[nob0dy]

I think there is quite a few people using Dave for IPTV channels - I don't think it matters which one of the Providers you are going to steal from I think they all are going to try and nab you :-)

yes sir very true ......

[Capt jim]

Anybody else recieve a letter from nagrastar ?

[nobodyspecial]

quite a few have reported letters

[jazzman]

This is the place to vent about letters as a friend of mine received a letter from nagrastar for $7,500...that was for iks.


http://www.satfix.to/forumdisplay.php?779-Court-Documents

[tbird686]

But right now there letters for iks...

Has anyone got a letter for iptv here yet

[jazzman]

But right now there letters for iks...

Has anyone got a letter for iptv here yet

I don't think it can be done yet with the existing laws but don't take my word for it as they can change the laws anytime they want...JMO

[tbird686]

There was that one post some where zoogor was saying he had 6000 customers
But followed with he was not posting that implying they took his account

Wow that's a lot....but I hope wrong I would hate 6000 customers having to give to the man....good luck to them darn iks

[Capt jim]

There was that one post some where zoogor was saying he had 6000 customers
But followed with he was not posting that implying they took his account

Wow that's a lot....but I hope wrong I would hate 6000 customers having to give to the man....good luck to them darn iks
I received a noticed today any advice ?

[tbird686]

You play the game go by the rules....you got caught pay the smaller fine or like they keep saying get a good expensive lawyer and maybe loose and just pay more.....either to the lawyer or worse to the lawyer and them.


How much are they asking?

[jazzman]

iks from nagrastar? Good luck and please go to the section I provided, lots of reading to do there about how to handle this. Nagratsar seems to be a lot harder on people than the hagen, noyle and boyle (lawfirm for DN) were as they provided the encryption for both DN and BEV.

[Capt jim]

I just received a noticed haven't accepted it yet . Aren't they just a security company ? They don't provide content right like Dave or dick

[jazzman]

I received a noticed today any advice ?

From what I've heard nagra is demanding $7,500 to make this go away. How were you notified? If not by certified mail I would just blow it off.

[Capt jim]

Yes certified mail but I haven't accepted the letter . Is it legal for them to do so ? Do they provide content ?

[jazzman]

Yes certified mail but I haven't accepted the letter . Is it legal for them to do so ? Do they provide content ?

Nagrastar doesn't provide the content but they are the company that was hired to do the encryption program that keeps the pirates from receiving it illegally so they're the ones on the hook when it is compromised. I imagine that both DN and Bev are leaning pretty hard on them since obviously the signal is out there and that is why they are more aggressive on securing the signal. They are a worldwide company with the means of coming after all sorts of pirate programs such as IKS JMO. Be afraid, be very afraid since they have entered the battle. I personally think IKS is doomed but as far as IPTV I'm not sure where the law stands there as most of it comes from open internet sources but if you subscribe to an IPTV service you may also be doomed as some of those channels ARE pirated from sources that I'm not sure are legal. Again, JMO. BTW, I figure as long as my friend's been doing this with the stand alone files and iks receiving the dish "everything" package plus nimiq 91 the price he paid was probably cheaper than he would have paid for those sevices so he shouldn't feel too bad for having paid the $3,500 lol. But yes, payback's a bitch! As in everything in life you take your chances and it just may come back to bite you in the ass. End of rant lol.

[Anubis]

Nagrastar doesn't provide the content but they are the company that was hired to do the encryption program that keeps the pirates from receiving it illegally so they're the ones on the hook when it is compromised. I imagine that both DN and Bev are leaning pretty hard on them since obviously the signal is out there and that is why they are more aggressive on securing the signal. They are a worldwide company with the means of coming after all sorts of pirate programs such as IKS JMO. Be afraid, be very afraid since they have entered the battle. I personally think IKS is doomed but as far as IPTV I'm not sure where the law stands there as most of it comes from open internet sources but if you subscribe to an IPTV service you may also be doomed as some of those channels ARE pirated from sources that I'm not sure are legal. Again, JMO. BTW, I figure as long as my friend's been doing this with the stand alone files and iks receiving the dish "everything" package plus nimiq 91 the price he paid was probably cheaper than he would have paid for those sevices so he shouldn't feel too bad for having paid the $3,500 lol. But yes, payback's a bitch! As in everything in life you take your chances and it just may come back to bite you in the ass. End of rant lol.
But it was a good and informative rant my friend!

I have a feeling that a lot of people are in for a rude awakening. Everyone calls it testing but there is no testing. You put a file that was purposely built to modify the programing and it's receiving capabilities of a legit FTA receiver so all one has to do is fill in the missing information which they purchase illegally for the box to show programming. Where is the testing? Powering on the unit to see if it works would be the extent of that. Now once again history repeats itself with yet another reseller getting caught and the letters going out to the end users. All those that had dealings with zoogor better start saving their money because if that letter comes best to pay it. History shows paying the initial demand is cheaper than the second letter. There is no warning to pay the first. Ignore it and second letter is doubled.

[bigslim]

But it was a good and informative rant my friend!

I have a feeling that a lot of people are in for a rude awakening. Everyone calls it testing but there is no testing. You put a file that was purposely built to modify the programing and it's receiving capabilities of a legit FTA receiver so all one has to do is fill in the missing information which they purchase illegally for the box to show programming. Where is the testing? Powering on the unit to see if it works would be the extent of that. Now once again history repeats itself with yet another reseller getting caught and the letters going out to the end users. All those that had dealings with zoogor better start saving their money because if that letter comes best to pay it. History shows paying the initial demand is cheaper than the second letter. There is no warning to pay the first. Ignore it and second letter is doubled.

You're right.....i just got woke up

[lobsterpot]

I received a noticed today any advice ?

hey are u american or a northern brother.

[nobodyspecial]

hey are u american or a northern brother.

he would be american

[johnnylarue]

Yes certified mail but I haven't accepted the letter . Is it legal for them to do so ? Do they provide content ?

How do you know if it is a demand letter from Nagra? Where I am, the post office does not tell you who it is from. You have to sign for it first. Maybe your DL is being suspended, or the IRS wants to see you? It could be lots of things.

[Capt jim]

Just picked the letter up yup it's nagra . They want 3500 and a permanent injunction . My question is if I settle can they come back on me from another reseller or service used in the past. Zoogor is a snitch bitch

[twenty5]

Zoogor took payments by paypal only right? I think any reseller that uses Paypal at all should be banned from the site. As far a I know, there haven't been any demand letters to people using anonymous prepaid credit cards. That and bitcoin should be the only method of payment to protect end users from their own carelessness.

[tbird686]

Just picked the letter up yup it's nagra . They want 3500 and a permanent injunction . My question is if I settle can they come back on me from another reseller or service used in the past. Zoogor is a snitch bitch


you would have to ask them that i guess
and as for zoogor ........did you pay with paypal?...........they just get the person and where they money came from and paypal is hard to fake these days so they go to his account and .........just work there way down the list all your personal info is there

[nobodyspecial]

Just picked the letter up yup it's nagra . They want 3500 and a permanent injunction . My question is if I settle can they come back on me from another reseller or service used in the past. Zoogor is a snitch bitch

A letter of indemnification which can be an attached letter that is part of your settlement agreement or included in the text of the settlement agreement releases you from any and all past indescretions up to the date you sign the agreement and pay them

[iq180]

Zoogor took payments by paypal only right? I think any reseller that uses Paypal at all should be banned from the site. As far a I know, there haven't been any demand letters to people using anonymous prepaid credit cards. That and bitcoin should be the only method of payment to protect end users from their own carelessness.
Well you would think after the Wufman got busted that people would learn not to buy from any reseller or use paypal but it seems that is not the case.
LIVE AND LEARN, that's all I can say.

[jedi]

Zoogor took payments by paypal only right? I think any reseller that uses Paypal at all should be banned from the site. As far a I know, there haven't been any demand letters to people using anonymous prepaid credit cards. That and bitcoin should be the only method of payment to protect end users from their own carelessness.

PayPal is OK if you use a fake PayPal account with a prepaid card to fund it and a fake email address as well
If the reseller sends you an invoice for service I think you can use a prepaid card to pay it without having to even have a PayPal account yourself.

[kenkell1]

Zoogor has always been a problem and was only a matter of time before the idiot got busted with everyones info......

He was of the most insecure sellers out there.....and a cocky retard!

[jazzman]

How do you know if it is a demand letter from Nagra? Where I am, the post office does not tell you who it is from. You have to sign for it first. Maybe your DL is being suspended, or the IRS wants to see you? It could be lots of things.

In my friends little rural post office when he showed them a stub for a certified letter they laid it on the counter before he had to sign for it. He saw that it was from hagen nole and boyle and should have refused to sign for it and it may have ended there but he signed anyway (dumass) and received the letter and then it was too late. I'm not sure if he hadn't signed for it that it would have saved his ass but maybe it would have saved the second letter from coming? Not real sure on this but if he wasn't at that address maybe it wouldn't have gone any further and they would have been sol. This is all opinion on my part but something to think about as people move around all the time and with DN's fishing expidition he might have gotten out of it as so many were involved...again just something to keep in mind as the *******s (sorry) are out for blood any way they can get it. With the zoogor debacle I'm sure it will be the same so do what you can to cya and maybe ask at your post office to see what you are signing for before you sign a lot of money away...again, JMO. I really think DN made more money from people paying the ransome demand than they would have if people had fought it...then again, maybe not as you would have been liable for the court costs when you lost and believe me with the info they had you would have lost...sad state of affairs for all involved................maybe this (iks) free TV isn't free after all.

[Thunderbolt]

Just got an email today from Nag giving me 14 days to hand over $3500. It was for last year and that was when zoogor was in play. Guess I will maybe just wait for a letter which is probably eminent at this stage. I don't want to call their phone number and admit to anything even though they do have my pay pal transaction information. Anyone have any good advice?

[jazzman]

DO NOT answer the e-mail and hide lol,,,the email is not importent and maybe it will end there...It takes a registered letter to prove that you received the letter.....keep your fingers crossed..........oh, and good luck

[nobodyspecial]

Just got an email today from Nag giving me 14 days to hand over $3500. It was for last year and that was when zoogor was in play. Guess I will maybe just wait for a letter which is probably eminent at this stage. I don't want to call their phone number and admit to anything even though they do have my pay pal transaction information. Anyone have any good advice?

were you emailing zoogor?

[Thunderbolt]

Unfortunately,yes I was. All of the info sent and received was via email.

[c8rbk1ng]

DO NOT answer the e-mail and hide lol,,,the email is not importent and maybe it will end there...It takes a registered letter to prove that you received the letter.....keep your fingers crossed..........oh, and good luck

If they have sent the initial email it won't end there. They'll send some more emails, a couple of regular 1st class mailings with the information (in detail) that they have concerning you and finally someone will show up at your front door to serve you papers. By this time they'll want 10,000 to settle so what you do is up to you. Surprisingly, sending that email and you opening it is just as good as them sending you a letter you have to sign for. Some new law. No one here can give you advice as to what to do, but remember, if you don't do anything they'll win a default judgement for $10,000 and it will go on your credit report. If your credit is already shot, or you don't have a pot to p**s in, or you don't care if this happens just remember winning a judgement and collecting a judgement are two entirely different things.

[jazzman]

He still has to receive the registered letter first before anything else happens other wise there's no legal proof he was notified...it does all go downhill from there tho. My friend paid the 3.5k and asked for signed copies of all release of claim forms. There should be 3, one from DN, one from echo* and another from nagra. Just how I remember it from the wuf debacle.

[rhsalt54]

" winning a judgement and collecting a judgement are two entirely different things."
That's not entirely true, they can garnish your wages.

[c8rbk1ng]

He still has to receive the registered letter first before anything else happens other wise there's no legal proof he was notified...it does all go downhill from there tho. My friend paid the 3.5k and asked for signed copies of all release of claim forms. There should be 3, one from DN, one from echo* and another from nagra. Just how I remember it from the wuf debacle.

That's why the process server shows up at your door. The registered letter means nothing...and according to the new law, the email they sent you is proof that you were notified, I just went through this stuff with my son.

[c8rbk1ng]

" winning a judgement and collecting a judgement are two entirely different things."
That's not entirely true, they can garnish your wages.

Did you miss the part of my post saying, "if you don't have a pot to p**s in"? If you're not working or have a low income what are they going to garnish?

C/P
If a creditor obtains a court order to garnish your wages, federal law limits the amount that can be taken to 25% of your disposable earnings or the amount by which your weekly disposable income exceeds 30 times the federal minimum wage, whichever is lower.
End C/P

It's actually a lot harder than you think to collect a judgement. If you don't have disposable income what are they going to take? Nothing! I've won a few judgements against people when I had my business and if they won't pay you, you need to hire US Marshalls to go collect and the amount you pay them to do this is almost the total amount of the judgement, so they basically get the money and you don't. Like I said, winning a judgement and collecting a judgement are two different things.

[Anubis]

Did you miss the part of my post saying, "if you don't have a pot to p**s in"? If you're not working or have a low income what are they going to garnish?

C/P
If a creditor obtains a court order to garnish your wages, federal law limits the amount that can be taken to 25% of your disposable earnings or the amount by which your weekly disposable income exceeds 30 times the federal minimum wage, whichever is lower.
End C/P

It's actually a lot harder than you think to collect a judgement. If you don't have disposable income what are they going to take? Nothing! I've won a few judgements against people when I had my business and if they won't pay you, you need to hire US Marshalls to go collect and the amount you pay them to do this is almost the total amount of the judgement, so they basically get the money and you don't. Like I said, winning a judgement and collecting a judgement are two different things.
They will collect personal item with a cash value such as cars, motorcycles, property.

[dishuser]

They will collect personal item with a cash value such as cars, motorcycles, property.

not in Florida

[c8rbk1ng]

They will collect personal item with a cash value such as cars, motorcycles, property.

Again, the operative statement here is, "if you don't have a pot to p**s in". :)

[c8rbk1ng]

not in Florida

Not in a lot of states but each state is different.

[Thunderbolt]

Thanks for your input guys at least now I have an idea of what to expect to look for in the coming days. I can't blame anyone except myself though. As the old saying goes "play with fire and you'r gonna get burned".

[c8rbk1ng]

Of course you have to own up to some of the blame but I blame the sellers and re-sellers who made their money over the years but wouldn't man up when the s**t hit the fan and threw their 'clients' under the bus. No one takes responsibility for their actions in today's society if they can get away with another course of action. They'll get away with a slap on the hand and all those 'clients' who receive letters will pay through the nose. Pay the $3500, you (generally not personally) probably watched that amount or more over the years so pay it and move on with life. The way I see it, there's only 2 options, pay the money or don't pay the money. The choice is up to the individual. JMHO :)

[jvvh5897]

Or negotiate to only pay a smaller amount. Most courts will require negotiation to get a settlement before they ever try to issue a ruling. So, offer a settlement for a small sum--I don't think anyone watches enough TV to justify $3500!
Negotiation will work even better if EVERYONE that get a letter works together. Get good representation that can offer other ways to respond to the letters or emails before doing ANYTHING.

[Nostradamus]

the best advice is see a lawyer, pay the ransom demand , make sure all the paper work is in order and get on with your life.

there is no way to find out who all got letters and try to mount some type of defense that way. Court documents are filed in different states and different districts within those states and there is no way of knowing who got a demand letter and who didn't anyway.

Face it, the same as getting caught speeding. You tried to cheat the system and you lost. As for the cost of $3500, well a good solid sub will cost you $100 every month not counting PPVs and events. Add those in and $3500 is about the retail value of 2 years of programming. Whether you agree with that value is a moot point.

Obviously some people are willing to pay those costs or the provider would not be selling it for that. In a sense anybody doing IKS agrees with the cost of a legit sub as well or they wouldn't be willing to pay less for an illegal service and at the same time risk the chance of getting caught and pay the full retail values as well.

The solution to the letter is simple. WRITE A CHECK!

[c8rbk1ng]

Or negotiate to only pay a smaller amount. Most courts will require negotiation to get a settlement before they ever try to issue a ruling. So, offer a settlement for a small sum--I don't think anyone watches enough TV to justify $3500!
Negotiation will work even better if EVERYONE that get a letter works together. Get good representation that can offer other ways to respond to the letters or emails before doing ANYTHING.

Do the math. If you had a legit sub with all the channels you get from IKS your cost per month would be in the $180 - $200 or more per month price range, and that doesn't include any PPV you may watch (WWE, MMA or PPV Movies). If you've had your service for about a year and a half there would be your $3500. If you've used IKS for more than that time you would have spent much much more with a legit sub.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

That's why the process server shows up at your door. The registered letter means nothing...and according to the new law, the email they sent you is proof that you were notified, I just went through this stuff with my son.



Just reading this thread for the first thus my very late reply. What new law is there that says an email is proof that you were notified ? There are alternative serving options a court can grant but really don't think an email can be used a substitute service as some new law that now allows it as some new general blanket acceptable law across the board. Its up to the Court, state, and circumstance if they will accept email as service, rulings have gone both ways but more rule against it.



The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure establish that individuals and corporations may be served “following state law for serving a summons . . . in the state where the district court is located." Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(e)(1), (h)(1)(A). Thus, state rules determine how plaintiffs serve on defendants. When personal service of process cannot be accomplished, plaintiffs usually resort to alternate means to serve defendants as allowed by state law. For instance, under Michigan law, when service of process cannot be made as provided by the civil procedure rules, “the court may allow service of process to be made in any other manner reasonably calculated to give defendant actual notice of the proceedings and an opportunity to be heard.” M.C.R. 2.105(I). This Michigan rule is common to most U.S. states.



In McCluskey v. Belford High Sch., Case No. 2:09-14345, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan was to decide whether service of process through an e-mail was an alternate way to serve defendant according to M.C.R. 2.105(I). The court held that an e-mail was not an appropriate service of process under Michigan law.

In McCluskey, plaintiffs alleged that defendants operated a fraudulent Internet scheme through various websites where they represented the existence of accredited and legitimate high schools, whose diplomas would be accepted by employers, professional associations, other schools, colleges and universities. Plaintiffs were adults who obtained diplomas through Defendant’s websites. Plaintiffs were unable to serve summons on defendants personally or by registered mail. Plaintiffs alleged that defendants listed addresses in Texas and California, but neither location had a physical office located there or an agent to accept service. Thus, plaintiffs filed a motion requesting the court to authorize service of process through (1) e-mail (they had some plaintiffs’ e-mail addresses); (2) by a posting at the county courthouse; and (3) by a posting on the Internet at “www.belfordlawsuit.com,” according to M.C.R. 2.105(I).



The court held that plaintiffs’ proposed alternate forms of service were not reasonably calculated to give defendants actual notice of the proceedings and an opportunity to be heard. Regarding the courthouse postings, the court held that there was no evidence that defendants had physical presence in Michigan as to infer that these postings would give actual notice to defendants. Regarding the Internet postings, the court held that “is unlikely to provide actual notice to Defendants of the proceedings because Defendants may not be aware of the existence of the website created by Plaintiffs.” Lastly, the plaintiffs failed to prove that the e-mail addresses obtained were likely to give actual notice of the proceedings to defendants.



Unlike this Michigan district court, a New York district court in Snyder v. Energy Inc., 857 N.Y.S.2d 442 (2008), allowed service through e-mail. In Snyder, Defendant Corporation was not registered with the N.Y. secretary of State and the plaintiff was unable to find a place where the defendant corporation or its president could be physically served. Plaintiffs showed the court that they made reasonable effort to locate a current address to serve defendants to not avail. Yet, plaintiffs showed the court that they could reach the corporation’s president on the Internet. Plaintiffs had the president’s e-mail address and they sent an e-mail requesting a physical address to serve process, but their e-mails were unanswered. The court held that “[S]ervice by e-mail was reasonably calculated, under the circumstances, to apprise the corporation and the president of the action, and was an appropriate form of service.”



According to the two above decisions, the granting of a request of service of process through e-mail may depend on the facts of each case and the state court to decide it. E-mail as an alternate way to serve summons is still incipient, and many years may passed before this becomes a common practice





GS2