Signal jumping on SES1

[dcapper]

I installed a 10' dish for SES1 at the cabin a while back and it was working great. Its a long rg6 run to a Viewsat 9000HD into a emp diseqc. I get no picture and when I am in dish pointing, the signal jumps from 0 to 60 percent. It never locks onto a signal. I tried a different cable and adjusted the dish but it never got better. Could it be the Receiver or LNB or maybe the cable length? The receiver works with 119 and 110 fine. Any ideas?

[jvvh5897]

You pretty much have to do some voltage testing to have a better idea of what is happening. Does 14/18V reach the LNB and at a good enough level. Does the voltage and 22KHz signal get to the switch to operate it. If it worked for a while then odds are they did, but something has changed--maybe the cable got badly corroded, but if you tried another cable and no diff, then maybe not. Maybe the receiver box got zapped and you need to try a different box. That you can use a small Ku band dish closer to the box suggests it is working but a long cable is going to load the box output a lot more or at least require it to work well. Maybe the switch got zapped--that might be my best guess.

[Terryl]

How long a run to the switch is the RG-6?

And what type of RG-6, does it have a pure copper core or is it the copper plated stuff? A small magnet can tell.

If it's the CPS stuff (magnet sticks to the center conductor) then it could be corrosion/rust of the center conductor, that will drop the DC voltage big time.

[dcapper]

I'm thinking it's 150'. It's outdoor underground dual rg6. I tried an inline amp. It didn't work. I went back to the cabin today. Looks like the frost shifted the post. It's not level anymore. I will meter and check the cable next weekend. I will have to get the post level and work with it from there. Before the winter I had up to 70% signal on the same setup. The Viewsat I'm using is still working on 110 and 119. Hardest part is how I'm going to level the post. What I might do is use a ratchet strap to a tree to get it straight and then build a crib and pour more concrete.

[Terryl]

If the base has moved due to frost then any fix you apply may not work, the frost has widened the hole around the concrete base, it's best to dig a new one (a bit deeper this time) and move the dish.

If it's not possible to dig a new one then you can try a soil cap, this may be the only way, the soil cap will try and keep the frost out of the base, I suggest a 6 foot by 6 foot by 4 inch cap, this on top and around the base.

A new base should be at least 2 feet below frost line.

[iq180]

I'm thinking it's 150'. It's outdoor underground dual rg6. I tried an inline amp. It didn't work. I went back to the cabin today. Looks like the frost shifted the post. It's not level anymore. I will meter and check the cable next weekend. I will have to get the post level and work with it from there. Before the winter I had up to 70% signal on the same setup. The Viewsat I'm using is still working on 110 and 119. Hardest part is how I'm going to level the post. What I might do is use a ratchet strap to a tree to get it straight and then build a crib and pour more concrete.
I would use 4 screw anchors and cables that way if it moves it's easy to fix the next time.

[dcapper]

I reinforced the dish today. I set all the transponders. The mpeg4 transponders are the ones jumping around. Metv is still mpeg2 and there is new hd ones. They scanned fine and are working. Could my 8psk module in my viewsat be acting up?

[jvvh5897]

From what lyngsat says, all the TP that you likely are getting are DVB-S, but some are sending mpeg4 like Movies and Decades but METv is mpg2. So, it can't be your 8psk module as that is not likley to be in use for DVB-S QPSK signals.
My DVB-S2 signals often "bounce" around--I've always assumed that it is difficult for decoder to get good Q on such signals or that they do not bother to average the Q levels. Everyone says that DVB-S2 signals require bigger dish to get well--perhaps the signals are harder to get cleanly through the atmosphere and space (more phases mean any delays are more likely to cause a degradation ).

[dcapper]

Great info. The weird thing is, that the channels worked great for a year and now not good at all. I might have another receiver I can try. I'm also looking at running rg11 to the dish instead of rg6.

[iq180]

I reinforced the dish today. I set all the transponders. The mpeg4 transponders are the ones jumping around. Metv is still mpeg2 and there is new hd ones. They scanned fine and are working. Could my 8psk module in my viewsat be acting up?
Check your ground wire.

[dcapper]

Just an update. My friend has a cband dish setup with a Manhattan fta receiver and his signal is jumping around as well. Has anyone got SES1 running and can check theirs? I'm wondering if SES1 is getting weak, although I doubt it since it has 9 more years left of life.

[iq180]

Just an update. My friend has a cband dish setup with a Manhattan fta receiver and his signal is jumping around as well. Has anyone got SES1 running and can check theirs? I'm wondering if SES1 is getting weak, although I doubt it since it has 9 more years left of life.
I have SES1/101.0W, no problems with mine, I am using a freesat V8 receiver.

[dcapper]

Movies, Decades, and Heroes & Icons working good? He's been using his Manhattan for years. Could the footprint gotten smaller? We're in Manitoba.

[iq180]

Movies, Decades, and Heroes & Icons working good? He's been using his Manhattan for years. Could the footprint gotten smaller? We're in Manitoba.
I am in the south east U.S. and it's working fine for me.
I don't remember what sat it was but I was having the same problem and it was my dish ground wire, you need to check it.

[Costactc]

Eastern Canada is where I reside. No issues what so ever on my Gsky V7 and Technomate F3/5- funny thing is that is where my bud is parked at the moment.

[dcapper]

Great! At least I know the satellite is working. I'll look at the ground wire. But I'm surprised my buddy's dish isn't working. He had his system professionally installed. I won't be back at the lake for a week or so. I'll check the ground and the lnb voltage then, but I might pound a ground rod in the ground and ground it that way. The neighborhood power lines are right above the dish and hydro just upgraded a little while back.

[Terryl]

Signal is steady as a rock here in central California.

[dcapper]

Maybe they just don't like Manitoba? I have a 10' and he has a 6' dish.

[Costactc]

Maybe they just don't like Manitoba? I have a 10' and he has a 6' dish.

Is it on tp with both polarities? Are you using a switch?

[Terryl]

SES1 was a good foot print for Manitoba all the way out to the coast of Hudson bay as seen in this foot print map.


http://www.satbeams.com/footprints?norad=36516

It could be some local interference, anyone using a dual band high powered router close by????

Or any cell phone towers???

Even radar can cause some problems, any airports in that direction of SES1?

[dcapper]

The cell tower is a few miles away and no airports. I'm using a wifi antenna to point at the neighbors but it's at least 200" away pointing the opposite direction. I'm using a diseqc to connect the dish. I wonder if I should use a 22khz switch for SES1 and use a diseqc for 119 and 110?

[jazmine]

The cell tower is a few miles away and no airports. I'm using a wifi antenna to point at the neighbors but it's at least 200" away pointing the opposite direction. I'm using a diseqc to connect the dish. I wonder if I should use a 22khz switch for SES1 and use a diseqc for 119 and 110?I was using azbox mini and it was also jumping on me. I put my openbox s9 back on working great no problems.

[dcapper]

Weird. I wonder why my Viewsat and my friend's Manhattan are not working. His dish is about 30 miles from mine.

[Terryl]

The cell tower is a few miles away and no airports. I'm using a wifi antenna to point at the neighbors but it's at least 200" away pointing the opposite direction. I'm using a diseqc to connect the dish. I wonder if I should use a 22khz switch for SES1 and use a diseqc for 119 and 110?

Are the LNB's for 110/119 the DP type?

If so how far away are they from the "C" band dish?
It could be a sub-harmonic from the OCS-DP type LNB(s), and the "C" band LNB is picking it up on that transponder.

And as to the cell tower, is it in the general direction of SES1?

What happens if you shut down the 110/119 setup and connect directly to the "C" band?

[jazmine]

I have a 110w 11250 freq. lnb that is in the scaler ring so that it is close to center of dish no interference what so ever. Over many years I have found that not all receivers work the same. I think that something did change in your area and that your current receiver can not handle the change as did my azbox mini.

[dcapper]

The LNB on the 10' dish is a Titanium Satellite C1W-PLL lite Wideband C-band LNBF. I have single dish network lnb's on 110/119, but that dish is over 100' away from the 10' dish. The 10' dish points towards the cell tower but the tower is at least 5 miles away as the crow flies.

My friend phoned Skyvision and they told him, they have had calls regarding the same issues we are having. They told him it's the service provider. So I guess I have my answer.

[dcapper]

Well I just got back to the cabin and plugged the rg6 right into Viewsat and still had the same problem. So just on a hunch I turned off the SK900v hd tuner in the menu and the channels scanned are working now with 80%. So I'll have to order a new tuner or turn it on and off to watch SES1. So I guess Skyvision is wrong.

[dcapper]

New update. My buddy contacted Skyvision again and they said there is a problem with the channels and the broadcasters were working on it. My buddy's receiver started working yesterday. I got back to the lake today with a new 8psk and I am having the same issues. I'm thinking I need to factory default the receiver and reload the firmware. I didn't bring a usb stick but I will next weekend.

[dcapper]

Looks like my Viewsat 9000HD is wonky. I can get ses1 to work if I turn off the ext tuner in it. My 110 and 119 don't work. So i tried a Viewsat max and it doesn't find ses1 channels at all. Does anyone know of a cheap fta mpeg4 receiver strictly for use on ses1 and maybe g19? Or an camd type receiver with high current output to the lnb? I was going to bring out my Jynxbox but the current output is too small.

[iccoldbeer]

No problems with ses1 or g19 on any of my receivers even the cheap 25 usd china no name. Not suggesting that receiver as dolby is not decoded is passed raw over hdmi or coaxial to tv or sound bar for decode. My gsky v7 and tbs6922se also no issue I will dig my old s9 from basement and check it. I have noticed many at other forums discussing the problem you are experiencing but has not been an issue for me with beat up 10 foot mesh 1 province east of you.Had to bump frequency up 3MHz for HI Decades and Movies to scan with my card assumed it was dro lnb drift.

[dcapper]

Thanks for the reply. I pounded an 8' ground rod in today and checked the voltage at the lnb since it's a long run. It's at 13.6v. I think I have a receiver problem more than a cable/lnb problem.

[dcapper]

Found a classhd receiver on kijiji and hooked it up today. It can't get a lock on the transponders. It goes from 88% to 0 non stop. The only transponder working well is the metv hd. Its a new one. I even set the lnb voltage to 14/19 volts. Can someone give me a list of receivers to buy? Maybe this Titanium lnb has issues?

[Costactc]

Found a classhd receiver on kijiji and hooked it up today. It can't get a lock on the transponders. It goes from 88% to 0 non stop. The only transponder working well is the metv hd. Its a new one. I even set the lnb voltage to 14/19 volts. Can someone give me a list of receivers to buy? Maybe this Titanium lnb has issues?

Both my Titanium lnbf have been collecting dust in my garage. I am presently using a gsky no name brand lnbf on my 8' solid and I will be testing another one out later on my 10' mesh. Technomate, gsky v7 and freesat v8 are my main receivers.

[dcapper]

Think it could be the lnb? I'll look into getting another receiver. My Viewsat works but the 110/119 side gets all screwed up.

[Terryl]

Thanks for the reply. I pounded an 8' ground rod in today and checked the voltage at the lnb since it's a long run. It's at 13.6v. I think I have a receiver problem more than a cable/lnb problem.

How did you measure this?????

[dcapper]

Removed the cable from the lnb and put a volt meter across the pins. That's with the Viewsat. Didn't check it with the class hd receiver. I had an amp on it earlier and the signal on the diplay was 88%. With the inline amp removed it's at 77%.

[jvvh5897]

Oh, dear! That voltage will drop even more with a load rather than an open. I use a two-way splitter that lets me tap the voltage at the end point with everything operating. You should measure the voltage at both V and H setting--we don't know if that 13.6 level measured is for 14V or should be 18V.

[jvvh5897]

I'm sitting here trying to picture how LNB could cause jump in signal and pretty much drawing a blank. LNB circuits have amplifier on probe that then goes to a mixer with Dielectric puck oscillator on second tap and then a wide band amp to drive the line into house. All those parts should be modern ones so very stable. The Oscillator may drift with temperature, but that is going to be long term variation not something you would see as "jump". There is a voltage regulator to take the supplied voltage to a constant one and that could be an issue if the voltage get to a critical low level, or if the voltage regulation is poor or has failed--not sure if that is a known issue with that LNB or not--I would guess not an issue.

[dcapper]

Oh, dear! That voltage will drop even more with a load rather than an open. I use a two-way splitter that lets me tap the voltage at the end point with everything operating. You should measure the voltage at both V and H setting--we don't know if that 13.6 level measured is for 14V or should be 18V.

Yikes. Chaulk that up to me being a dumbass. Well I have tried so many different combinations and nothing wants to work. Going to have to get a new receiver or lnb. I see on other forums that Decades, Movies, and Heroes & Icons are a common problem. I don't know what it means but it's something about the sid's are too close. This receiver has voltage setting for the lnb. I have a long run, should I use 14/19v or 13/18v?

hxxp://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/post/ses1-8086731?&trail=15

[Terryl]

On a long run I would use the higher voltage setting.

And they make a special voltage tap to measure the DC voltage on an RF circuit, but it cost a bit, you can use a small piece of coax with connectors on each end, then take a very sharp razor blade and slice about 2 inches of the coax off down to the center conductor, make sure there is still a connection on the shield and center conductor, then you can measure the DC voltage under the proper load of the LNB, this will/may disrupt the signals of the LNB but it will tell you if your getting the correct DC voltage to the LNB for that polarity.

+13/14 volts DC = "V" polarity, +18/19 volts = "H" polarity.

[jvvh5897]

I use a 4 foot mini-BUD for C band and when I have the LNB setup just right, I get Movies, Decades and Heros just fine with an older Openbox s16. The level is low, the adjustments of scaler/LNB/Dish position are sometimes hard to reproduce and the signal bounces around when I view the signal meter (but look just fine when I hook up a Signal Analyser).
right now I have the dish pointed at 95 degrees for AMGTV and it is right at the lowest level that gives me anything--lots of pixallation and a reading that bounces around between 31% and nothing.
But with mini-BUD I get lots of interfering signals so a signal might be good today and not there the next with everything the same in the setup.

[dcapper]

I got the Viewsat 9000 working somewhat. I can turn the ext tuner off in the menu and I get all the channels on SES1, then if I want to watch dishnetwork I turn the tuner back on. I'm going to take my Jynxbox to the lake this weekend and see if it works. I will update the thread when I get that receiver installed.

[jvvh5897]

If you like testing, you might want to document some info about the 9000 box's ext tuner--things like pinout, chips on the board (think it is Broadcom based). I've tried in the past to look at the code in the vs9k files, but they seem compressed or encrypted in a way I could not figure out and I had no boot to look at (the main sw is likely put into RAM in clear code by boot code).

[dcapper]

Well so much for the 9000. I blew it up.

[dcapper]

Repaired my 9000 and got another one given to me. It actually works fine as long as I turn off the ext tuner in the menu. Then turn it back on when I want to watch IKS. I bought two Dreamlink T4's. I'm going to take one to the lake and try it, and report my findings.

[dcapper]

I hooked up a Dreamlink T4 today and it doesn't find a signal. I'll have to just keep using the 9000 or find an Openbox.

[dcapper]

Just came out to the lake last night and I noticed the signal on SES1 is much stronger. Has anyone else noticed this?