No Signal, during the day.

[miramichier]

Greeting`s,
Iam having a problem with my Nano Premium SE, what it is doing is very strange, in daytime when Iam testing 00200,00911,00912,00913,00914 but when I goto the instalation menu channel search I see that there is 95% S&Q on all five of these channel`s only but at night when the sun goes down they work Iam not pointed into the sun, so that is out, so I though hardware I have replaced the LNB`S three times the Disq twice and I have installed new RG6 coax altho it was RG6 before but still doing the same thing.
The dish`s and lnb`s are all grounded to a piece of rebar pounded four feet into the ground, I have done severial soft reboot`s and many factory resets, here are my setting`s,
SW=SKY 3.05(July30)
LDR=1.09
HWR VER=1.00
USB=2.0
Driver=1.0
Nano Premium SE(2)
TP Freq= 12297
LNB=11250
Iam using decited dish`s for both 110 and 119 and the LNB`s are Dish Dual Pro, myP$ is Rocket Iam using their IP ADDY and I have checked the codes and they are good.
Now in saying all of this I next tried an old CS 5000 to see if I would loose my S&Q between the channel search menu and a channell and all was good that part worked.
So now Iam lost here are my question`s
1) Why would I have a good signal on the menu installition screen and not on the channell, and those five only?
2) Why does it change at night? I can understand moisture getting into an LNB and messing that partuclar one up but not three differn`t one`s.
3) Why can`t I change the TP setting`s? you can goto the channell search screen and click on another TP beside`s 12297 and push theExit button on the remote which is supposed to save your tp setting`s all you want doesn`t do it.
I know it has to be something simple and Iam missing it but what.
Every other channel that i test work`s but just those one`s.
Now in saying all of this Iam not fussy in changing my software frome 3.05 b/c from what I have read that one seem`s to be the most stable.
Regard`s Miramichier.

[Terryl]

Questions:

What is the elevation of your dish? Is it low to the ground? (5 to 25 degrees)

Is there an open field of snow or wet ground out in front of the dish's location? (within 1 to 4 miles)

Is there a large flat roofed building covered with snow out in front of the dish's location? (within 1 to 4 miles)

Is there a large body of water or ice out in front of the dish's location? (within 1 to 4 miles)

How is the dish mounted? On the roof? On a stand alone pole? Is it pointing across a large portion of the roof?

Have you checked the dish mounting hardware to see if it's loose?

And predicted sun outages will not start up till the end of the month, depending on location and the satellites involved.


Loss of signal only during the day could be attributed to what is called "Phase cancellation", this is where the down coming signals from the satellite bounce off something out in front of the receiving dish, this "Bounced" signal is 180 degrees out of phase with the normal one, when the bounced signal is as strong as or close to the same ampitud as the main singal they will cancel each other out, or drop the signal strength of the main signal below the level that the LNB can detect.

The bounce or reflection point can be a large open field covered in snow or wet grass, during some parts of the year the bounce goes away due to the field drying out or the snow melting, it can also be a large parking lot, and the sun is at the correct angle to cause the mirage effect, this is like where your driving down the road and you see water on it, only to get to that point and it gone, the signals from the satellite can bounce off this effect and cause the phase cancellation.


If all hardware has been checked and a second receiver has been used to check the attached equipment and all looks to be normal, then this may be the problem, the only way to tell if this is the problems is to move the dish or shield the bottom portion of the dish to keep the reflected signals from getting to the LNB's.

One way to shield the dish is to move it so the dish cant be seen from the ground, or to where is not pointing across a large part of the roof, the location would be on the other side of the roof peak, thus using the roof to block anything that may be bouncing in from a lower angle.

The best thing to do is get up on the roof (carefully) with a pair of binoculars and look in the direction the dish is pointing, look for anything that could cause the reflection.




Sorry too much coffee, I will quit typing for now.

[miramichier]

Hi Terryl,
Here are the answers to the question`s both dish`s are on the house, with 119 mounted higher then 110, the house mount is plum and square and the bent piece of pipe that the dish goes on to is plum, checked many times with a buble leval, they are also lag bolted to the house.
The elevation`s of the dish(s) are low 110=21 degrees, 119=15.6 degrees, there are no large building`s, field`s in front ot them the only thing that is close is the neibors roof and it is about 20 ft by 40ft.
The only body of water near me is the Miramichi River and that isn`t in line of sight of the dish`s.
What I really wanted to do was to change and lock the TP and test that theory,to see if with another TP I could get these five b/c I have another Nano Premium SE and it is doing the same thing, so is it just a built in fault that one can`t get and lock a TP from the Menu screen to the channell search screen and the thing will lock onto the new TP?
BTW I have gone into the menu where you can turn your TP on/off doesn`t matter, Iam pulling out the little bit of hair that I have left.
Regard`s
Miramichier

[torpainter]

Hi Terryl,
Here are the answers to the question`s both dish`s are on the house, with 119 mounted higher then 110, the house mount is plum and square and the bent piece of pipe that the dish goes on to is plum, checked many times with a buble leval, they are also lag bolted to the house.
The elevation`s of the dish(s) are low 110=21 degrees, 119=15.6 degrees, there are no large building`s, field`s in front ot them the only thing that is close is the neibors roof and it is about 20 ft by 40ft.
The only body of water near me is the Miramichi River and that isn`t in line of sight of the dish`s.
What I really wanted to do was to change and lock the TP and test that theory,to see if with another TP I could get these five b/c I have another Nano Premium SE and it is doing the same thing, so is it just a built in fault that one can`t get and lock a TP from the Menu screen to the channell search screen and the thing will lock onto the new TP?
BTW I have gone into the menu where you can turn your TP on/off doesn`t matter, Iam pulling out the little bit of hair that I have left.
Regard`s
Miramichier

auto tp in the menu does not turn off a tp. The first conus tp on 119 is 12297 You will need to change tp to this in settings to check your signal. There is no signal on the lower tps It will default to 12224 Thats normal

[Terryl]

You can also try TP 12457R to find 119W as it has the "Dish 101" channel on it and that is an open to all channel, it will tell you if you have a good signal on 119 or not.

More questions:

If you leave the reciver on a channel from 119W (Dish 101) can you note the "Q" on that channel at night, then look at it in the morning to see if the "Q" has dropped?

Or get up before the sun does and note the "Q" on that channel and track it till drop out?


Has this happened before? Like last year, or is this the first time?

With 119's elevation being so low means your way out in the East or North East of it's foot print, you could or may need a bigger dish for 119W.

Look at the link below, it will give you the active foot print for 119W, look in the pink area, it has a list of spot beams, slide to the right to the CONUS beam and select it, zoom into your location and click on it, this will give you an idea on the dish size needed for your location.


http://www.satbeams.com/footprints?norad=36499

[dishuser]

Yes, I have the same issue but didn't mention it as I'm in the testing phase (18" dish sitting in living room pointing through window). When spring comes I'll put the dish on the roof and see if it improves, otherwise I'll have to find a bigger dish. I agree that the sun and/or snow are causing signal interference, but the small dish is probably the biggest cause... The signal is just on the threshold so any interference causes pixelation and signal loss. I scan in only 100-200 channels during daytime but over 400 in the evening or early morning... I'll keep an eye on this thread and also post any changes come spring... Keep testing!

(iLink 9800 receiver)your problem is not the same

[Terryl]

Yes, I have the same issue but didn't mention it as I'm in the testing phase (18" dish sitting in living room pointing through window). When spring comes I'll put the dish on the roof and see if it improves, otherwise I'll have to find a bigger dish. I agree that the sun and/or snow are causing signal interference, but the small dish is probably the biggest cause... The signal is just on the threshold so any interference causes pixelation and signal loss. I scan in only 100-200 channels during daytime but over 400 in the evening or early morning... I'll keep an eye on this thread and also post any changes come spring... Keep testing!

(iLink 9800 receiver)


So, I decided to try scanning again and got 455 channels in the middle of the day... The channels scanned in but are still quite pixelated... So, I'm not sure what the change is except that we have high overcast sky with fresh snow... Slightly milder temperature... Anyway, good testing, each scan is always different...


Your problem is the window glass, try it with the window open, watch the "Q", most double pane windows have an IR and UV coating, this cuts down on the satellite signal.

Mounting the dish outside is the best solution, mounting a piece of plexiglass where the glass was will let more signal through.

[miramichier]

Thank`s Terryl,
I will do that and treport back.
Miramichier

[fta4ever]

your problem is not the same

That was a less than useful response. If the problem is signal loss during the day (as you mentioned in your post) then my 'cause' might be different but the 'problem' is the same. I wish members would try to understand a post instead of just reading it and then posting simple replies.

[fta4ever]

Your problem is the window glass, try it with the window open, watch the "Q", most double pane windows have an IR and UV coating, this cuts down on the satellite signal.

Mounting the dish outside is the best solution, mounting a piece of plexiglass where the glass was will let more signal through.

Post #9 also applies here. I have an older window with no coating. If it had UV coating the signal loss would be constant, not change through the day. If you had understood my post you would realize that plexiglass is not an option since this is temporary and only for testing... Another epic fail response...

[dishuser]

Post #9 also applies here. I have an older window with no coating. If it had UV coating the signal loss would be constant, not change through the day. If you had understood my post you would realize that plexiglass is not an option since this is temporary and only for testing... Another epic fail response...

stop hijacking this thread
you don't have the same stb or setup

[fta4ever]

stop hijacking this thread
you don't have the same stb or setup

And you don't have any answers... Enough said...

[dishuser]

And you don't have any answers... Enough said...

my answer
you're too stupid to understand

[fta4ever]

my answer
you're too stupid to understand

Ditto... Subject of this thread is "No Signal, during the day"... I may have a different box but the solution could apply to mine...think before you post again...

[dishuser]

Ditto... Subject of this thread is "No Signal, during the day"... I may have a different box but the solution could apply to mine...think before you post again...
so it only happens to you on the 5 channels mentioned?

[fta4ever]

so it only happens to you on the 5 channels mentioned?

Yes, so what's your solution?

[dishuser]

Yes, so what's your solution?
put your dish outside

and start your own thread

[fta4ever]

put your dish outside

and start your own thread

Hahaha... That's what I expected...

[dishuser]

Hahaha... That's what I expected...

well if you're gonna lie about your problem don't expect help

[fta4ever]

well if you're gonna lie about your problem don't expect help

Not that you can help anyone, you'd have to have some knowledge on the subject...

[miramichier]

Hi,
I have been doing some more testing, and I have found that on a cloudy day I have those channells and on a sunny day they are gone.
Now the only thing that I can think of if since we are having a real old fashioned winter here in NB and alot of snow and the snow is piled high it`s the sun`s reflection off the snow that`s wipeing me out, the anount of snow that we have here is the only thing that has changed since last year.
Now I`am 98% sure that`s my problem and the only cure is to wait till spring and the snow goes and see what happen`s.
So in saying all of this why isn`t the sun`s glare off the snow wipping me all out?
Thank`s
Miramichier.

[Terryl]

Yah, it looks like its the old mirage effect, the signals are bouncing off the snow, just like the water in the road that's not there when you get there.

And not all signals are the same frequency's on the satellite downlink, some may bounce better sas they are further away from or closer to the resonate frequency's of water, hydrogen and oxygen. some get absorbed (this is what causes a signal drop during a rain or snow storm) and some will bounce off, the bounced signals will cause a drop in signal strenght at the dish.

This problem does not affect all dishes or all locations, only areas with flat terrain or large body's of water and dishes at low angles to the satellites, the angles have to be just right, and the terrain must be just right, and as you have noticed it doesn't happen all year round.

One possible fix to this is to mount the dish wher it gest some shielding from the roof peak, if the bottom of the dish cant see the ground the reflected signals may be blocked, so mounting the dish where the roof peak just blocks the reflected signals may help, mounting it so the LNB's can just see the satellites, if this is possible, this all depends on the type of dish you are using.

With a prime focus dish (LNB's mounted directly in the center of the dish) it may not be possible, with an offset dish (like a dish 500) it may.

[miramichier]

Hi,
Yes that`s correct, that`s the reason that I don`t get it b/c if I was completley wiped out on a sunny day ,I would know that the reason was the reflection of the sun off the snow into the dish, again the only thing that has changed is the amount of snow that would be it shut down till dark.
Miramichier